NSW Inc and MAA want to fund the State with CTP Green Slip Increases - GET MAD!!

[VinceS]

The Results:

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/1000-motorcyclists-in-ctp-protest-20100831-14bne.html

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/08/31/2998825.htm?section=justin

http://news.brisbanetimes.com.au/breaking-news-national/1000-motorcyclists-join-ctp-protest-20100831-14bne.html
 
Meeting with Michael Daley, NSW Minister for Finance
1:10pm to 1:35pm, Tuesday 31st August

Present:  Minister Daley, his adviser, Rob Colligan and Simon Disney

*   Rob opened by expressing extreme dissatisfaction at the lines of communication between MCC and Government concerning the CTP issue.
*   He said the legislation is flawed and less than transparent with regard to how premiums are calculated
*   The Minister responded by saying he agreed with MCC and saw only one way for the numbers of motorcycles on our roads to go... and that would be UP.
*   Rob said we want a Ministerial Advisory Council run by motorcyclists
*   The Minister said he would explore this further at a subsequent meeting and offered MCC a permanent spot on the Motor Accidents Council
*   The Minister said that he would arrange a meeting with the MAA and attend in person if possible and send a staffer along together with an independent actuary to discuss the issues raised by MCC.
*   Rob said that issues we would discuss are a new type of recreational registration for trail bikes, a single seat registration category and a new LAMS category.
*   The Minister agreed that the MAA should assist with investigating these changes.
*   MCC also wants consistent ministerial staff liaison so that we don't have to keep explaining our issues over and over again to new staffers as they come and go.... Preferably at Chief of Staff level.  Minister agreed to this request.
*   MCC also discussed the unfairness of tolling for motorcycles and stressed the importance of continuing use of bus lanes by motorcycles so that motorcyclists can continue to share the road with professional (ie: safer) bus drivers.
*   Also discussed the effectiveness of the MCC at communicating safety messages to the riding fraternity and agreed to explore how MCC can play a greater role in working with government to improve motorcycle accident and injury rates.  
*   Rob pointed out that riders despise being told how "dangerous" and "risky" our form of transport is, particularly when it is bureaucrats and politicians doing the telling. This was noted by the Minister.

Discussions will continue, but I would like to think that this was a very good outcome for the work we put in.

I will keep you all updated as more comes in.

Warmest regards,

Rob Colligan
Chairman
Motorcycle Council of NSW
0401227731

[VinceS]

A good outcome in that the MCC NSW has been given useful access to the system and may now be able to get genuine action to flow from this event. Interesting that all the "official speak" by for example the police minister was about the quantity and vulnerability of accidents motorcyclists have, and nobody official understood that the costs of green slips are about the harm motorcyclists do to others and is nothing about what others do to motorcyclists or we do to ourselves! This sort of totally incorrect view will be part of the problem, thus getting to a viable answer may just be a matter of time and methodically cranking the "keep it real" handle.

Yesterday more than 1,000 riders protested outside NSW Parliament and made their voices heard against the outrageous increase in motorcycle CTP insurance.

Here is the Channel Seven News story on the rally. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u48sDy7cAqU

In a bid to divert attention, after the rally the Keneally Labor Government announced that the Motor Accidents Authority (MAA) would review motorcycle green slip pricing.

The last time the MAA did a review CTP green slips went up by 85 per cent!

I met many of you yesterday, spoke at the rally and got the message loud and clear that it is action you are after, not more reports or reviews.

After Premier Keneally failed to attend the rally, I asked her about Motorbike CTP hikes in NSW Parliament. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRP9IfEyg9w

I will continue to fight for action from the Keneally Labor Government and encourage you all to continue to spread the word about the Rider Rip Off website http://www.riderripoff.com.au/ - we now have more than 5,000 signatures but we need to keep on building momentum on this important issue.

Regards

Andrew Stoner MP
Shadow Minister for Roads

[VinceS]

First coverage of tomorrow's Rally at Parliament House.....     
 
get that click rate happening folks.....
 
forward to your friends.....
 
http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/motorcycle-ctp-protest-20100830-1468l.html

Here is an extract of the text, but do view it per the link above to score the hits (and see the pics!):

Motorcycle CTP protest
Stephen Ottley
August 30, 2010 - 3:49PM

Motorcycle riders are expected to be out in force on Sydney streets at noon tomorrow to protest state insurance laws.

Hundreds are anticipated to flock to Parliament House at MacQuarie Street to express there outrage over huge compulsory third party (CTP) insurance hikes.

According to Rob Colligan, Chairman of the Motorcycle Council of New South Wales, some riders have been slugged with 105 per cent CTP increases since new regulations came into force on July 1 this year.

Under the new scheme motorcycles are split into five categories based on engine capacity, instead of the previous three categories. Colligan will lead the protest rally tomorrow pushing for an radical change to the CTP insurance scheme, claiming it is outdated and rorts both car drivers and bike riders.

"What we're calling for is a complete overhaul of the CTP system," Colligan says. "We've got the most complex system in Australia and the most expensive. It's a disgusting system."

He claims the insurance companies have been charging too much and making big profits off the back of the current scheme.

"They say 50 per cent of rider's premiums went down," Colligan says. "Well I'm one of them, it went down $6. And that's the problem the decreases are far outweighed by the increases.

"The more we looked into it the more we realised we are paying too much, about 25 per cent across the board."
Colligan, who represents more than 40,000 riders through the MCC of NSW, believes splitting bikes into categories based on the type of bike would be a better solution.

One of the biggest problems are part-time riders that predominantly use their bikes only on weekends in state forest. Colligan believes a new category for recreational riders would help, as would a category specifically for scooters.

Fellow rider Daynon Adam has also been hit with a bigger CTP bill and backs Colligan's call for a new scheme.
"Mine is about $700, which is ridiculous for a weekend toy," Adam says. "It used to be $500 [before the change].

"A lot of people are not going to buy them because that's too much money for something to go riding once a month."

Colligan is also heavily critical of the under-fire Labour Government, saying he hasn't received any offers to meet to discuss the issue and no minister accepted an invitation to speak tomorrow at the protest.

"I've had a lot of buck-passing from the government," Colligan says.

 "It's a sad indictment on the leadership of this state."

Instead, Shadow Minister for Roads Andrew Stoner will speak along with Colligan at the noon rally.

[VinceS]

Another Press release:

[VinceS]

With the arrival of these details I would propose a 9:30am departure from the Caltex Twin Servos on the Freeway for a Northern contingent. I am not sure if I will go at this stage but would like to and probably will as I have been to a couple of protest ralleys over the years and have always found them to be a unique life event I was glad I participated in afterward. This sort of thing doesn't come along every day, it gives a real sense of making a difference, plus the pure spectator value is pretty good. So, Tusday 31st Aug is just under 4 weeks away, who wants to join in the fun?

From RAB website:
Because of police regulations the suggestions and guidelines listed here are voiced by the RAB are a part of an agreed plan that was constructed outside of the MCC's jurisdiction, in order to avoid legal action being taken against Rob Colligan as the Chairman of the MCC and sole organiser of the Rally.
Andrew Stoner and Barry O'Farrell have confirmed their attendance in order to speak with us and have their own say. Also remember the letter writing campaign must NOT stop just because we are having this rally.
It is extremely important to realise the MCC has NOT given any instructions as to where and how we may ride or park. We do it all out of our own volition.

Guidelines for the Day:
1. Approximately 50 riders are required to attend the area of Parliament House and Hospital Rd behind Parliament at approximately 3 - 4 am in order to start securing the parking spaces.
Note: At this stage only 1 bike per space is allowed to park - If more than one bike is in any one space all the bikes parked will be issued with a fine. Negotiations are proceeding to have that rule suspended for the duration of the protest.

2. Because of the volume of bikes we expect to be in attendance around Parliament, the plan is in conjunction with people on foot to have a constant cavalcade riding around the block of Macquarie St and Hospital Rd "looking for parking" that will slow traffic.

3. At 6am there will be a van located on Hospital Rd that will be distributing hand held placards and other materials for the protest. This is a Black and Green Ford Transit Van.

4. Marshalls will be positioned around Parliament and surrounding streets guiding bike traffic, please be respectful and listen to their directions.
Note: The Dykes on Bikes at this stage are being suggested as the marshals and will be wearing high visibility white shirts with reflective strips.

5. All members walking to the rally are asked to carry their helmets as a distinguishing feature and insignia of being a motorcyclist and participant in the protest.

6. The official protest is allocated to run between 12pm - 1pm, however the "go slow" because of the volume of bikes will start early in the morning.
Note: If you arrive early and plan to ride around "looking for parking" please ensure you have a FULL tank of petrol... do not run out of petrol and risk being spoken to and penalised by the police.
Note: If you cannot attend in the morning, please arrive outside Parliament House by 11:50am and join the motorcade around Parliament House.

7. THERE WILL BE A STRONG POLICE AND MEDIA PRESENCE! Idiotic behaviour will not be tolerated under ANY circumstances. Anyone committing an offence should expect no leniency from the police and no support from the RAB.

8. If approached by the media and asked why you are protesting you are to direct ALL questions to Rob Colligan who will be on the staging area with the microphone. This will avoid people making silly comments which will be used as stock footage and harm the goal of the rally.
Note: if you MUST make a comment, it must relate to the CTP issue. WE ARE PROTESTING ABOUT CTP AND NOTHING ELSE.

9. In order to cover costs imposed by Sydney City Council, The Police and The Royal Botanical Gardens Trust, a hat will be passed around asking for at least a gold coin donation.
Note: Please remember the MCC gets no official funding from the Government and all costs are being worn from their own (under funded) treasury.

10. If the number of bikes is as large as we hope, we will just cram all the parking and footpath space, within reason.
Note: Any footpath parking may attract a fine of around $85, so park at your own risk.
Note: If you do receive a parking ticket leave it on your bike so you dont receive another one.

11. If riding into the city in a large group RAB suggests riding in a 'go slow' fashion. Make it a slow race not a fast race, you will have more effect. All groups riding to Parliament are responsible for their own actions and will receive no support in antisocial behaviour from the RAB or the MCC in any way, shape or form. Use your head, don't do anything stupid!

12. This, we hope, will be one of the largest motorcycle rallies in NSW history. Lets make it count and not further negative stereotypes that have lead to our being discriminated against in the first place.

You know the time, you know the place, you know the reason. We NEED you there and anyone else you can bring. Lets make this THE Protest that tells the Government enough is enough.
Hope to see you there!

[VinceS]

This is part of a series of releases and as such a part of a (hopefully) well designed strategy.

[VinceS]

Those with 250cc's are the worst affected as the cut-off has been moved down to 225cc and 250's now get lumped in with bikes three times their size. What a total BS approach from a bunch of AH bureacrats!!!!!!!

It is interesting to see Mr Stoner of the Nationals signed first!

This new website has just been launched.     I signed!

It would be a good idea to get this circulated as widely as possible to as many riders as possible in order to demonstrate the level of anger out there.
 
Also let them know how much your Greenslip has gone up this year so that they have some facts on the table to throw at the Government.
 
Er, that would be the Government who swore blind that the cost of Grenslips would only go up by $20. 
 
Yeah right!
 
Get them page views happenin'!!!
 
http://www.riderripoff.com.au/

[VinceS]

A couple of bits of info from MCCNSW chit chat:

Details are now: Macquarie Street (outside Parliament House) and the protest goes from noon. Police have been advised and the official approvals have been sought and obtained. Right now there are no plans for a group or mass "ride in". The MCC is saying just get there yourself. It is possible that organised ride-ins will be advised closer to the event. I think the MCC has no idea of numbers. Anyone definitely going to be there could email the MCC to help their planning.

Things have been happening at MCC (Motorcycle Council) which is the group representing the motorcycle clubs in NSW.

They have been meeting with other groups from the Motor Industry and Government bodies, primarily about the screwy way CTP has been set. Basically MAA got it wrong, basing it on crash data instead of claims data.

Plenty of detail on MCC's site www.mccofnsw.org.au if you want. Including letters to write and addresses to send to.

HOWEVER, the main point is that there is a protest rally planned for August 31st - the day NSW Parliament gets back to work (work!).

Let's put up a good, strong, united front.

Please take the time now to decide to be there. MCC Press Release is below. Try to think about how you'll dress and how we'll present ourselves, we want to be taken seriously by boring people like the Pollies...

[VinceS]

MCC of NSW and other ride groups have organised a Protest in Sydney on Tuesday 31st August. We are urging all riders to meet at 12 noon outside Parliament House, Macquarie Street Sydney.
 
This event is about welcoming the Politicians back from their Winter Break and letting them know that there are over 168,000 of us and that a large portion of us are as mad as hell.
The Premier and members of Parliament have been invited to speak. The Press Release is attached below, and pasted under the following invitation which has been sent to many politicians:

Dear Premier,
                     On behalf of the Motorcycle Council of NSW, I would like to extend an invitation for you to speak at a gathering of Motorcyclists and Scooter Riders outside Parliament House at 12noon on August 31st. We would like to hear from our Government on what can be done to find a solution to the massive increases in CTP Premiums for many in this community as of July 1st 2010. We would also like to hear our Governments? position on recognizing motorcycles and scooters as a ?Unique and Independent Road User Group?.

We would welcome this opportunity to hear you speak to us about our concerns and look forward to your RSVP.

Warmest regards

Rob Colligan
Chair
Motorcycle Council of NSW
Mob: 0401227731


*********************************************

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

NSW GOVERNMENT FAILS THE STATE'S MOTORCYCLISTS ONCE AGAIN
21 July 2010

With the arrival of new mobile speed cameras, and the RTA's proposed new 4km/h tolerance limit for all speeding offences, it is time to take an objective look at the facts the speed-camera-revenue-addicted Keneally government is not telling us about motorcycles.

* FACT: In 1995 there were 8.9 motorcycle fatalities per 10,000 registered motorcycles in NSW.
* FACT: In 2008 there were 3.7 motorcycle fatalities per 10,000 registered motorcycles in NSW.

There are more bikes on the road than ever and the road toll is going down. The RTA's own statistics verify that. There is no "carnage" on our roads and there never has been. That is just a convenient catch-phrase the government wheels out whenever it wishes to bankroll its fiscal failures from the pockets of the state's road-users. Despite this, motorcyclists' CTP premiums are set to rise by over 84 per cent in some cases.

"Never in my 40 years of involvement in motorcycles have I seen riders so angry," the chairman of the NSW Motorcycle Council said today. "On August 31st, 2010 NSW Parliament returns and thousands of annoyed motorcycle and scooter riders will be there to greet them."

Motorcycle and scooter riders are a unique and independent road-user group and they are fed-up with being ignored and repeatedly failed by the NSW government, except when it needs money.

THE MCCofNSW
United we ride - Divided we walk

[VinceS]

Hi all,
 
My reply from Barry O'Farrell, interesting.... let see if he can do anything.
 
Thanks
Noel

________________________________________
From: LOP@parliament.nsw.gov.au [mailto:LOP@parliament.nsw.gov.au]
Sent: Wednesday, 23 June 2010 6:18 PM
To: Noel O'Kell
Subject: Re: Planned CTP Increase
Dear Noel,
 
Thank you for your email regarding the increase in cost of CTP green slips in NSW.
 
From 1 July, nearly 500,000 riders in NSW will have to deal with new green slip charges.
 
Green slips and other extra taxes and charges that accompany insurance premiums have been a great source of revenue for cash-strapped NSW Labor Government.
 
When Labor increased the green slip levy as a result of the addition of the Medical Care and Injury Services [MCIS] Levy in 2006, Morris Iemma said it would cost members of the community only $20. It is now running as high as 50% of CTP premiums.
 
In 2010-11, the NSW Government?s Motor Accident Authority has a projected deficit of $18.2 million. This deficit is why you will pay more for your green slip levy from 1 July. 
 
From our understanding, the increases in CTP green slips for motorcycles will be more than 85 % in some cases. This will cost you up to $470 a year.
 
Kristina Keneally?s Labor Government?s vision for our roads network involves more fines, more taxes and higher premiums but no new roads.
 
Motorists and riders are already being hit with higher tolls, rising power and water costs and other cost of living pressures. These increases in CTP green slip charges will certainly not help.
 
The NSW Liberals & Nationals understand your frustration and are investigating alternatives to this unreasonable price hike in close consultation with the Motorcycle Council of NSW.  I will continue to keep you updated. 
 
Thank you again for taking the time to write to me. 
 
Barry
_________________________________
 
 
 
Barry O'Farrell MP
NSW Leader of the Opposition
(P) 02 9230 2270
(F) 02 9221 8208
(E) LOP@parliament.nsw.gov.au
 
www.barryofarrell.com.au
www.twitter.com/barryofarrell
________________________________________


>>> "Noel O'Kell" 21/06/2010 8:50 pm >>>
Dear Mr O'Farrell
 
As published in the Daily Telegraph (See http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/fortune-to-insure-your-bike/story-e6freuy9-1225881982834 )  Could you advise why this increase is being pushed by the NSW Labour Government, to me it is price gouging to the highest degree.  There is no logic in this considering Compusory Third Party insurance is to insure the other people in an accident, a motorcyclist who is at fault would not be covered normally - to cover this costs more.  If anything, CTP for Motorcycles should be reduced considering a motorcycle can't do as much damage to other people as a car or 4 wheel drive, they also reduce congestion and have a much smaller carbon footprint.
 
I have been riding motorcycles since I was 12 years old, I got my learners license at 16 years and 9 months (As it was in the day) and my riders license at 17, I am now 54 years old and have never had an accident where I was hurt (Touch wood ) and a clean license.  My wife and I ride a tourning motorcycle which has kept our marriage alive and well, our beloved hobby which we enjoy is in danger of being wiped out. We also belong to the Ulysses Club which has more that 50,000 members, a majority of whom live in NSW.  This WILL reduce the income of regional townships as we bring tourist dollars to these communities every day, if we stop riding because we get priced off the road by these increases these communities will suffer.
 
I just can't understand why this is being introduced, there is no justification for it.  I look forward to your response.
 
Many thanks
Regards
Noel

[VinceS]

OK more data.

NSW and Queensland are the only States to offer a 'choice' As my original note indicated, Queensland offer a fixed cost throughout the state with either a discount or premium (you decide the terminology) based on whether you have a pillion or not.

In NSW there are a million variables and seven insurers and the price can only be calculated based on all the variables (Smoke and mirrors).

In Western Australia the fixed price is currently $138.93 (Private use) $147.54 for Business use)
In Victoria it looks like the postcode is a variable - do we have any Victorians who could provide data please?
In SOuth Australia the postcode comes into effect - but just to determine one of 2 districts - DIstrict 1 or District 2. Also they have 4 motorcycle classes.

                                                District 1                District 2
Class 34 < 50 cc                        $70                        $44
Class 35 50-250cc                    $222                        $97
Class 36 250-660cc                    $288                    $195
Class 40 > 660cc                        $$390                    $337

Note: The SA data is transcribed from a PDF - which made me crick my neck looking at it sideways :-(

ACT.

11 Motorcycle
(a) if the engine capacity is not over 300 mL.......................  $97.90
(b) if the engine capacity is over 300 mL but is not over
600 mL............................................................................   $438.80
(c) if the engine capacity is over 600 mL.............................. $438.80

ACT Summary - two classes 1. < 300cc $97.90 PA. Over 300cc $438.80 PA

Northern Territory

Motorcycle exceed 600ml        $698.45
Motorcycle exceed 260ml        $698.45
Motorcycle exceed 125ml        $270.50
Motorcycle not exceed 125ml    $96.95

NT Summary - I suspect the granularity is to allow more variance in the future - note that effectivly there are three classes 1. < 125cc, 2. 125-260cc and above 260cc

Finally (nearly forgot <grin>) Tasmania.

125cc to 250cc $448.00
Over 250cc $448.00
Less than 125cc $178.00

In Tas as in some of the other states they have a greater granularity with the same premium - essentially they have two classes being < 125cc and above 125cc

I found the following URL which gives a pointer to all individual states calculators/schedule.

<http://moneysavingmaster.com.au/travel-transport/article/24-greenslipctp-insurance.html#1>

Thats all folks!


*******************************************************************************
One of our motorcyclists in Queensland posted his CTP quote - thought the comparisons may be useful
I have made some points/questions after the data below.

<http://www.maic.qld.gov.au/ctp-premium/ctp-calculator/ctp-calculator.shtml>

For Renewal period March to June 2010 - Class 13 (Motorcycle with pillion)
       AAMI: $292.00      
         SUNCORP: $292.00      
         NRMA Insurance: $292.00      
         ALLIANZ: $292.00      
         RACQ Insurance: $292.00      
         QBE: $292.00      

Same period without pillion. (Class 12)
       QBE: $100.00      
         AAMI: $100.00      
         SUNCORP: $100.00      
         NRMA Insurance: $100.00      
         RACQ Insurance: $100.00      
         ALLIANZ: $100.00      

For renewal period 30-June to September 2010 with pillion.
        AAMI: $284.00      
         RACQ Insurance: $284.00      
         QBE: $284.00      
         NRMA Insurance: $284.00      
         ALLIANZ: $284.00      
         SUNCORP: $284.00      

And for same period no pillion.
         RACQ Insurance: $99.40      
         NRMA Insurance: $99.40      
         AAMI: $99.40      
         QBE: $99.40      
         SUNCORP: $99.40      
         ALLIANZ: $99.40   

Some points on the quoted prices.

1. No question on size of bike
2. No question on existing insurance
3. No question of age of rider
4. For the later period the no pillion quote has gone down (I assume because you havn't got a pillion to be injured)

5. VERY IMPORTANT - all insurers are quoting EXACTLY the same amount.

6. No question of postcode where bike is.
7. The rider only prices are enough to make one weep!

Perhaps someone can give be some better  insights into the above data!

I may do this same exercise for the rest of the States/Territories.

*******************************************************************************
To clarify the "no pillion class" in Queensland, many years ago, under a very well organised, vocal and politically active MRAQ (sadly long since degenerated somewhat from those mighty heights), the Queensland state government, through their insurance company SGIO who became Suncorp, were/was outed in the media as thieves for charging money to insure something that doesn't exist, i.e. the vulnerable non existent passenger on a solo seated bike.
 
By way of explanation, your CTP covers not you the rider, but the passengers of your bike plus the controller and passengers of any other vehicle involved in an accident, and any unlucky bystanders that may receive personal injury from the actions of the said rider. Take away the pillion and the likelihood of claim is diminished by a huge percentage.
 
The Queensland state government acquiesced and added a class of registration for solo seated bikes and reflected this in CTP premiums. You can register any motorcycle as a solo seater by removal of rear footpegs and theoretically grabrails (including the uphostered band across the saddle, which is deemed such) and for a small fee (much less than the savings incurred) a once off inspection and affixment of a plate stating that the machine has been modified from the original 2 seat configuration. I've take advantage of this with every bike I own, from sportsbikes to scooters, and save at least $1500 a year on rego/ctp
 
Time for NSW to get a liitle loud for your legal rights?


*******************************************************************************
     Please find below the bullet points that we would like you to use in your words in letters to the following:
 
?   Your State Local Member. http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/prod/parlment/members.nsf/V3ListCurrentMembers
?   Your Local Council/Mayor.
?   Your Federal Local Member.
?   Your local Paper.
?   Premier of NSW:  Kristina Keneally, premier@www.nsw.gov.au
?   The Minister for Roads: David Borger, minister@borger.minister.nsw.gov.au
?   The Minister for Transport: John Robertson, office@robertson.minister.nsw.gov.au
?   The  Minister for the MAA: Eric Roozendaal, enquiries@treasurer.nsw.gov.au
?   The Minister for Finance: Michael Daley, office@daley.minister.nsw.gov.au
?   Leader of the Opposition: Barry O?Farrell, LOP@parliament.nsw.gov.au
?   Shadow Minister of Transport: Gladys Berejiklian, willoughby@parliament.nsw.gov.au
?   Shadow Minister for Roads: Andrew Stoner oxley@parliament.nsw.gov.au
 
 
Ask these questions and use these points:
 
Why are some CTP insurers making no effort to offer competitive pricing for a compulsory, statutory product?
Clearly, the CTP system is fat and lazy with few incentives to offer fair pricing
 
Whose turn is to be cheapest next year? GIO seem to be the cheapest this year.
 
Cheap does not mean sub-standard.
It indicates one company is pricing based on actual risk and others are seeking profit from how they market their product.
It is unreasonable for a statutory, compulsory product, to force up pricing by confusing or misleading through so-called ?marketing?  
Marketing distortions do not reflect actual risk.
 
Why should existence of another insurance product or roadside service change pricing for CTP risk?
Please explain how these are related to actual CTP claims risk.
 
Why do some insurers have different risk ratings?
If actual risks were known, then all insurers would vary on the same criteria.
 
How do demerit points relate to actual risk of a CTP claim arising?
Demerit points and actual risk of a crash are quite separate and no longer indicate crash risk.
Minor crashes with no injury are about property damage, not CTP claims
Speeding fines are simply used as a ?malus stick? for revenue generation by insurers.
 
While the MAA is clear on the amount of money leaving the scheme, how much money is collected by insurance companies?
The question of fair profit follows, but transparency must be achieved.
 
 Points to remember in your letters:
The NSW CTP scheme has flaws and this recent change in motorcycle classifications has exposed these flaws to view.
These flaws can only be repaired by our elected government.
Let them know it needs fixing.
Don?t just whinge to your mate, then roll over. That?s lazy.  Stand up, speak out.
We?re being gouged by insurers exploiting the flaws.
Speak to Parliament or they assume you?re OK with it.
 
Please forward any responses via email back to MCCNSW.
 
In the meantime, we are continuing to plan for the Protest Rally on August 31st. Please spread the word.

[VinceS]

A motorcyclist sent this enquiry:
Using the following calculator with a start date of 1/12/2010, http://prices.maa.nsw.gov.au/index.html:
Why are motorcycles comparably more expensive for CTP than an equivalent car ? CTP stands for "compulsory third party" insurance which I understand means compensating someone else that the driver or rider injures during the course of an accident. If I were in an accident, where I were physically hit by another vehicle, I think it's a fair claim that I'd be more seriously injured if hit by a Ford Laser than my Hyosung GT250. However, CTP prices based on my details (39, 3 points, completely insured, no accidents) for a Laser is $373. The bike is $347.

Based on this comparison of compensation for injury, it appears a motorcycle is nearly equally likely to seriously injure a third party. The price is the same regardless of whether I drive a Nissan Patrol, a Commodore, or a Laser. However if I rode a 750cc motorcycle, which on rough stats would weigh 220kg, the price would increase to $508.

Please explain how being injured by a 220Kg motorcycle has a lower insurance payout than being hit under identical conditions by a 2,477Kg 2010 Patrol. This does not make sense.
and got back  this:

Response from ..@parliament.nsw.gov.au within 24 hours is not bad:

Thank you for raising your concerns about the increase in cost of motorcycle CTP Green Slips in NSW.

Since 1 July, the owners of more than 165,000 registered motorcycles in NSW have had to deal with new green slip charges.

The latest cost increase is a result of legislation the Keneally Labor Government introduced last year. At the time they said it would only result in an increase to the cost of the average Green Slip of approximately $10.[1].

The standard green slip fees for a 250cc motorcycle has risen by a dramatic 85.5 per cent and will cost many riders up to $470 a year for their green slips.

This rise comes on top of electricity, gas, water and vehicle registration hikes.

The Keneally Labor Government has an ongoing war on motorists and riders and its vision for our roads network involves more fines, more taxes and higher premiums but no new roads.

  After nearly 16 years in power they have no ideas and offer no solutions on how to fix our State's ailing road network.

The NSW Liberals & Nationals understand your frustration and believe riders are rightly disappointed with the Keneally Labor Government as this is just another increase that was slipped in without any consultation.

Only the NSW Liberals & Nationals have the practical and positive plans that will Make NSW Number One Again.

NSW needs a change of Government but in the meantime, the NSW Liberals & Nationals are investigating alternatives to this unreasonable price hike in consultation with the Motorcycle Council of NSW and other stakeholders.

I would be more than happy to keep you updated if you like.

Yours sincerely

Ilse van de Meent

[VinceS]

For history of this topic see http://hunterdog.org.au/DiscussionBoard/index.php?topic=165.0. Now with the bankrupt state we are in it is taking a new twist, and boy is there some momentum under the idea that enough is enough and taking the fight to 'em. It is very evident that this is about singular hatred some high ranking bureacrats have against motorcycles generally and motorcyclists in particular.  Here is some of the info floating around:

There will be a Rally which will be at 12 noon on August 31st at Parliament House, Macquarie Street Sydney. This event is about welcoming the Politicians back from their Winter Break and letting them know that there are over 168,000 of us and that a large portion of us are as mad as hell.

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001201849208#!/event.php?eid=110567892326153&ref=ts
 
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001201849208#!/profile.php?id=100001201849208&ref=ts
 
The guts of this issue is that CTP premiums are being split into different cc ranges than before, and there is a BIG impact on pricing for 250cc motorcycles which will double, and for litre plus bikes which go up by "a lot". I have checked the 250cc issue out and it is real. With the ridiculous variation between insurers (an "only in NSW" thing) it is hard to pin down exactly what is going on, one of the early statements was this:

Your CTP is going up.
NSW CTP Greenslips change from 1 July and no one bothered to tell us because they thought we wouldn?t notice.
The Motorcycle Council of NSW and Bikers Australia are unaware of the extent of the changes based on my calls to them today.
The new categories are as follows;
100 to 226
226 to 726
726 to 1125
1125 to 1325
1325 and over

Bike Capacity   Pre 1 July   New Price 1 July   Percent increase              250   $252                $465                84%              600   $663                $465                -30%              750   $663                $682                3%             1000   $663                $682                3%             1150   $663                $880                32%             1350   $663                $780                18%

Prices are an average of the top 3 prices gleaned from the MAA Greenslip calculator.
Information based on;
2004 model bike
Metro area rego.
Driver 48 Y/O
No Demerit points
No other insurance
No roadside assist.
No at fault
Private Registration

URL Legislative Assembly members
http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/prod/parlment/members.nsf/V3ListCurrentLAMembers?open&vwCurr=CurrLAByElectorate

Minister for Transport
John Robertson
office@robertson.minister.nsw.gov.au
Phones 9230 2152 and 9228 5661
Faxes 9230 2352 and 92285168

Minister for Roads David Borger
Phones 9637 1656 and 9228 3555
Faxes   9897 1434 and 9228 3585
 minister@borger.minister.nsw.gov.au

Shadow Minister for Roads Andrew Stoner
oxley@parliament.nsw.gov.au


Basically email/write/drop into your local member  and the transport minister and advise the following;
You vote and will vote for the person that supports you.
Ask why is this happening
Ask what are they doing about it.
Ask why the split of capacities is so obviously designed to gouge the maximum amount out of Motorcyclists[/color]