Author Topic: NSW Inc and MAA want to fund the State with CTP Green Slip Increases - GET MAD!!  (Read 36309 times)

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Offline VinceS

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Yep another win from this fine organisation. It now is officially old news but if you were wondering why you seemed to be getting a better deal this year it was this:

 Dear all,
Please see below for the press release from Minister Greg Pearce’s office today announcing the reduction in CTP for riders.
Riders finally get a win after the MAA grows a spine and stands up to the Insurers. As the MCC had advised riders previously, renew you rego for 6 months as prices would drop from 1 Jan and the proof is now in the pudding. This has been a long hard slog by many, many people to redress an injustice done to riders across the state of NSW and it would appear that the new Government is indeed listening and acting upon the concerns of NSW citizens. A round of applause to all those who have worked so hard and so long on this and a pat on the back to all the riders that attended the CTP Protest rally in August 2010 and all those that maintained the pressure thought the letter writing campaigns as well. This shows that you all can change the world. The MCC will continue to work with the MAA on the CTP working group in order to elicit more reductions where possible.

Feel free to post comments up on the MCC of NSW Facebook page or email me.

Christopher James Burns
MCCofNSW Chairman
0418 486 660
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Offline VinceS

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There is a fair bit of traction behind the whole CTP rip-off now, the MCC NSW's work is likely to result in sizable reductions from early next year, but nothing is certain. However, the extent of the ripoff and what it means is being noticed by others. eg:

Get out and shout

Tell Greg Pearce, NSW Finance Minister that motorcycle riders in NSW are watching with great interest the internal review of excessive profits and green slip pricing
Write letters to the SMH, to your local member, to your local paper.
Don’t just whinge on a forum or grumble at the pub

Do something. Yes, you.

Tell the papers, TV or radio stations how you feel about being overcharged so the big fat insurance controllers can have extravagant lunches at your expense.
I wonder who they’ve been taking to lunch all these years?

MCC of NSW has been at this subject for years, as one lone voice, but ignored by the NSW Labor Government – why?
The CTP Protest did have an effect. The new government is prepared to listen to riders, so get noisy and make sure they know you’re still here

Want to know more about the details of this?
There are two Inquiries into CTP/LTCS currently before the Law and Justice Committee of the NSW Government

Submissions are here:

No.2 is from the MCC of NSW – seeking to put forward a method where the scheme can be measured in order to assess the cost of Premiums.
Our protests are based on the fact we are being overcharged, but the MAA data is inadequate and doesn’t allow them to manage the scheme fairly.
HOWEVER, this means we are out of pocket – every year

Many of the submissions go to the “process” of how the scheme operates and who gets what out of the scheme cash buckets.
We remain interested in who puts what INTO the cash buckets and who keeps what is left over.

This morning’s SMH article delves into the submission (No.10) by the Bar Association – the barristers representing the injured

“Instead, as will be seen below when discussing insurer profits, the primary beneficiaries from the 1999 amendments have been the CTP insurers, who will pocket over $1.5 billion in excess profits for the period 1999-2009. It turns out that premiums could have been kept at the same level that they have been without the need to introduce the 10% WPI threshold at all. A scheme intended to compensate the injured has instead directed windfall profits to the insurers at the direct expense of the injured.”

MAA Annual Report

See Page 15 of the Bar Associations submission for more detail – under “Insurer Profits”
It is powerful reading, an excellent and accurate story on profitability of the scheme –  YOU are paying for this.

It is encouraging that the Bar Association has taken this issue to this Inquiry.

The MCC of NSW has been arguing this for over 5 years.

Press Release:
18 September 2011


The Motorcycle Council of NSW (MCC) is extremely pleased that an organisation as well respected as the NSW Bar Association has helped bring to light the inequities of the current NSW CTP premium system.
The MCC started campaigning 4 years ago to highlight the creeping cost increases in motorcycle CTP Premiums under the then Labor Government.
Motorcyclists were angered further following the increases in motorcycle CTP premiums from 1st July 2010, in some cases as high as 84%. This injustice resulted in the MCC coordinating the August 2010 CTP protest rally outside parliament house attended by 2,000 irate motorcycle and scooter riders from all over NSW.
The protest rally led to the then Minister meeting immediately with a delegation from the MCC and resulted in the commissioning of an independent audit into the NSW Motorcycle CTP scheme by Ernst and Young.
The MCC looks forward to the publication of the findings of that independent audit.
“We would expect that the current review of the NSW CTP scheme brings about some positive change for drivers and riders alike”, Chairman of the MCC, Christopher Burns stated today.
“The MCC has been working with the MAA and the former and current Ministers for Roads for some time.”
“There is no justification for the current rates of CTP insurance. CTP is a legislative requirement that should be fair and affordable for all and not a cash cow for insurance companies.” Mr Burns said.

For further information and enquiries please contact:
Christopher Burns – Chairman
0418 486 660

The Motorcycle Council of NSW(MCCofNSW) was established in 1982 by the then Minister for Transport and is the state’s pre-eminent motorcycle advisory group. Recognised Nationally and Internationally as the voice of riders in NSW, the MCC represents some 40,000 motorcycle riders from 43 clubs and motorcycling organisations.
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Offline VinceS

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Edit: Future discussion of this topic will be continued here:

15 December 2010

At its recent Annual General Meeting, the Motorcycle Council of NSW (MCC of NSW) was pleased to welcome a new Committee and to farewell the outgoing treasurer, Ray Gilbert, and secretary, Chrissy Gilbert.

The new MCC of NSW secretary is Janelle Haffenden and the new treasurer is Emily Hohnke.

Other new and welcome additions to the Executive Committee are Craig Hall, who also holds the role as Chairman of the New Media Sub-committee, and Christopher Burns who will be taking on the Club Liason and Membership Co-ordination Role. They join continuing committee members Bruce Campbell and Brian Woods.

Rob Colligan has been re-elected as Chairman and is joined by Simon Disney as Vice Chairman. ?The MCC of NSW owes a massive debt to the outgoing committee, as it has placed the new committee in a position of strength and stability, as we plan to face the future.? Colligan said.

He continued, ?There are major positive changes planned for the MCC of NSW in the near future, and the Executive Committee looks forward to implementing these changes as it strives to bring a new professionalism to the MCC of NSW.?

The MCC of NSW is also pleased to announce that following his recent appointment to the Motor Accident Advisory Council (MAAC), Chairman Rob Colligan will take his seat with this important body on 20 December, 2010. Mr Colligan?s appointment will ensure the MCC of NSW will continue to fight for affordable CTP Premiums for all riders after the monstrous, unsupportable and unconscionable increases on 1 July this year.

In the near future the MCC of NSW will be posting on its website the policies it is recommending to all sides of the political milieu, as NSW heads for a state election in March 2011.

It will also post the policies of the political parties, allowing riders to see and understand which party understands riders? legitimate concerns and which party views motorcycles and scooters in a positive light, and encourage riders to vote accordingly.
United we ride - Divided we walk

For further information and all media enquiries please contact:
Rob Colligan ? Chairman MCC of NSW

The Motorcycle Council of NSW(MCC of NSW) was established in 1982 is the state?s pre-eminent motorcycle advisory group and represents 40,000 motorcycle riders from 38 social clubs and motorcycling organisations.
« Last Edit: 22 Jan 2011, 01:04 PM by VinceS »
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Offline VinceS

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« Reply #15 on: 27 Oct 2010, 09:50 PM »
Here's a really useful win from which a fair bit of other solid stuff should flow. This is a news release by The Hon David Borger MP, Minister for Roads, Minister for Western Sydney:

Saturday 23 October 2010
Minister for Roads David Borger said a new Ministerial Advisory Council would address the safety issues faced by NSW motorcyclists.
The announcement coincides with today?s start of Motorcycle Awareness Week.
Mr Borger said the NSW Government is committed to improving rider safety through public education and safety initiatives.
?We want to promote the safety of motorcyclists by educating drivers and riders of best practice on the road and reminding them of road rules and regulations,? he said.
?And as part of my commitment to motorcyclist safety, I will be opening the inaugural Motorcycle Ministerial Advisory Council meeting on November 15.
?The Council will include key industry representatives and the Government acknowledges the role of the Chairman of the Motorcycle Council of NSW Rob Colligan, pursuing the need to establish such a body,? he said.
Mr Borger said the Ministerial Advisory Council has been set up as part of the NSW Government?s five-year Road Toll Response Package announced in March 2010, to educate road users on motorcyclist safety.
?Ultimately, it is the responsibility of motorcyclists and other road users to ensure the safety of riders,? he said.
Last year 69 motorcyclists were killed in fatal crashes in NSW - representing 15 per cent of all fatalities in 2009.
?These statistics are alarming but it reminds us that all road users need to take more care. These lives are cut short; and mothers, fathers, sons and daughters are left to pick up the pieces,? Mr Borger said.
?Motorcycle Awareness Week reminds road users to be more aware of motorcyclists, and to always check blind spots at intersections when changing lanes.
?Motorists involved in motorcycle casualty crashes often report that they ?looked for, but did not see? the motorcycle,? he said.
Mr Borger said motorcyclists are encouraged to look out for themselves by using appropriate lane positioning and wearing bright, protective clothing.
?As the weather starts to warm up we see an increase in recreational riders,? he said.
?Riders should wear protective clothing, preferably that is clearly visible in all weather conditions. Wearing thin summer clothing means the rider risks serious injury if he or she is involved in a crash.?
Motorcycle Awareness Week runs from Saturday 23 October to 31 October and is organized by the Motorcycle Council of NSW.
For more information on the events for Motorcycle Awareness Week in local areas visit:
Contact: Cara Davis 0407 219 944
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Offline VinceS

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Re: NSW Inc CTP Green Slip Increases - GETTING MAD - MORE Videos
« Reply #14 on: 04 Sep 2010, 01:19 PM »  (need to watch a short advert at the front) (Quentin Dempster is always one to smell a rat and go for it, I expect he will do some follow ups too)
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Offline VinceS

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The Results:
Meeting with Michael Daley, NSW Minister for Finance
1:10pm to 1:35pm, Tuesday 31st August

Present:  Minister Daley, his adviser, Rob Colligan and Simon Disney

*   Rob opened by expressing extreme dissatisfaction at the lines of communication between MCC and Government concerning the CTP issue.
*   He said the legislation is flawed and less than transparent with regard to how premiums are calculated
*   The Minister responded by saying he agreed with MCC and saw only one way for the numbers of motorcycles on our roads to go... and that would be UP.
*   Rob said we want a Ministerial Advisory Council run by motorcyclists
*   The Minister said he would explore this further at a subsequent meeting and offered MCC a permanent spot on the Motor Accidents Council
*   The Minister said that he would arrange a meeting with the MAA and attend in person if possible and send a staffer along together with an independent actuary to discuss the issues raised by MCC.
*   Rob said that issues we would discuss are a new type of recreational registration for trail bikes, a single seat registration category and a new LAMS category.
*   The Minister agreed that the MAA should assist with investigating these changes.
*   MCC also wants consistent ministerial staff liaison so that we don't have to keep explaining our issues over and over again to new staffers as they come and go.... Preferably at Chief of Staff level.  Minister agreed to this request.
*   MCC also discussed the unfairness of tolling for motorcycles and stressed the importance of continuing use of bus lanes by motorcycles so that motorcyclists can continue to share the road with professional (ie: safer) bus drivers.
*   Also discussed the effectiveness of the MCC at communicating safety messages to the riding fraternity and agreed to explore how MCC can play a greater role in working with government to improve motorcycle accident and injury rates.  
*   Rob pointed out that riders despise being told how "dangerous" and "risky" our form of transport is, particularly when it is bureaucrats and politicians doing the telling. This was noted by the Minister.

Discussions will continue, but I would like to think that this was a very good outcome for the work we put in.

I will keep you all updated as more comes in.

Warmest regards,

Rob Colligan
Motorcycle Council of NSW
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Offline VinceS

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Re: NSW Inc and MAA CTP Green Slip Protest - WE GOT MAD!!!!!!!!
« Reply #12 on: 01 Sep 2010, 06:50 PM »
A good outcome in that the MCC NSW has been given useful access to the system and may now be able to get genuine action to flow from this event. Interesting that all the "official speak" by for example the police minister was about the quantity and vulnerability of accidents motorcyclists have, and nobody official understood that the costs of green slips are about the harm motorcyclists do to others and is nothing about what others do to motorcyclists or we do to ourselves! This sort of totally incorrect view will be part of the problem, thus getting to a viable answer may just be a matter of time and methodically cranking the "keep it real" handle.

Yesterday more than 1,000 riders protested outside NSW Parliament and made their voices heard against the outrageous increase in motorcycle CTP insurance.

Here is the Channel Seven News story on the rally.

In a bid to divert attention, after the rally the Keneally Labor Government announced that the Motor Accidents Authority (MAA) would review motorcycle green slip pricing.

The last time the MAA did a review CTP green slips went up by 85 per cent!

I met many of you yesterday, spoke at the rally and got the message loud and clear that it is action you are after, not more reports or reviews.

After Premier Keneally failed to attend the rally, I asked her about Motorbike CTP hikes in NSW Parliament.

I will continue to fight for action from the Keneally Labor Government and encourage you all to continue to spread the word about the Rider Rip Off website - we now have more than 5,000 signatures but we need to keep on building momentum on this important issue.


Andrew Stoner MP
Shadow Minister for Roads
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Offline VinceS

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First coverage of tomorrow's Rally at Parliament House.....     
get that click rate happening folks.....
forward to your friends.....

Here is an extract of the text, but do view it per the link above to score the hits (and see the pics!):

Motorcycle CTP protest
Stephen Ottley
August 30, 2010 - 3:49PM

Motorcycle riders are expected to be out in force on Sydney streets at noon tomorrow to protest state insurance laws.

Hundreds are anticipated to flock to Parliament House at MacQuarie Street to express there outrage over huge compulsory third party (CTP) insurance hikes.

According to Rob Colligan, Chairman of the Motorcycle Council of New South Wales, some riders have been slugged with 105 per cent CTP increases since new regulations came into force on July 1 this year.

Under the new scheme motorcycles are split into five categories based on engine capacity, instead of the previous three categories. Colligan will lead the protest rally tomorrow pushing for an radical change to the CTP insurance scheme, claiming it is outdated and rorts both car drivers and bike riders.

"What we're calling for is a complete overhaul of the CTP system," Colligan says. "We've got the most complex system in Australia and the most expensive. It's a disgusting system."

He claims the insurance companies have been charging too much and making big profits off the back of the current scheme.

"They say 50 per cent of rider's premiums went down," Colligan says. "Well I'm one of them, it went down $6. And that's the problem the decreases are far outweighed by the increases.

"The more we looked into it the more we realised we are paying too much, about 25 per cent across the board."
Colligan, who represents more than 40,000 riders through the MCC of NSW, believes splitting bikes into categories based on the type of bike would be a better solution.

One of the biggest problems are part-time riders that predominantly use their bikes only on weekends in state forest. Colligan believes a new category for recreational riders would help, as would a category specifically for scooters.

Fellow rider Daynon Adam has also been hit with a bigger CTP bill and backs Colligan's call for a new scheme.
"Mine is about $700, which is ridiculous for a weekend toy," Adam says. "It used to be $500 [before the change].

"A lot of people are not going to buy them because that's too much money for something to go riding once a month."

Colligan is also heavily critical of the under-fire Labour Government, saying he hasn't received any offers to meet to discuss the issue and no minister accepted an invitation to speak tomorrow at the protest.

"I've had a lot of buck-passing from the government," Colligan says.

 "It's a sad indictment on the leadership of this state."

Instead, Shadow Minister for Roads Andrew Stoner will speak along with Colligan at the noon rally.
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Offline VinceS

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Another Press release:
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With the arrival of these details I would propose a 9:30am departure from the Caltex Twin Servos on the Freeway for a Northern contingent. I am not sure if I will go at this stage but would like to and probably will as I have been to a couple of protest ralleys over the years and have always found them to be a unique life event I was glad I participated in afterward. This sort of thing doesn't come along every day, it gives a real sense of making a difference, plus the pure spectator value is pretty good. So, Tusday 31st Aug is just under 4 weeks away, who wants to join in the fun?

From RAB website:
Because of police regulations the suggestions and guidelines listed here are voiced by the RAB are a part of an agreed plan that was constructed outside of the MCC's jurisdiction, in order to avoid legal action being taken against Rob Colligan as the Chairman of the MCC and sole organiser of the Rally.
Andrew Stoner and Barry O'Farrell have confirmed their attendance in order to speak with us and have their own say. Also remember the letter writing campaign must NOT stop just because we are having this rally.
It is extremely important to realise the MCC has NOT given any instructions as to where and how we may ride or park. We do it all out of our own volition.

Guidelines for the Day:
1. Approximately 50 riders are required to attend the area of Parliament House and Hospital Rd behind Parliament at approximately 3 - 4 am in order to start securing the parking spaces.
Note: At this stage only 1 bike per space is allowed to park - If more than one bike is in any one space all the bikes parked will be issued with a fine. Negotiations are proceeding to have that rule suspended for the duration of the protest.

2. Because of the volume of bikes we expect to be in attendance around Parliament, the plan is in conjunction with people on foot to have a constant cavalcade riding around the block of Macquarie St and Hospital Rd "looking for parking" that will slow traffic.

3. At 6am there will be a van located on Hospital Rd that will be distributing hand held placards and other materials for the protest. This is a Black and Green Ford Transit Van.

4. Marshalls will be positioned around Parliament and surrounding streets guiding bike traffic, please be respectful and listen to their directions.
Note: The Dykes on Bikes at this stage are being suggested as the marshals and will be wearing high visibility white shirts with reflective strips.

5. All members walking to the rally are asked to carry their helmets as a distinguishing feature and insignia of being a motorcyclist and participant in the protest.

6. The official protest is allocated to run between 12pm - 1pm, however the "go slow" because of the volume of bikes will start early in the morning.
Note: If you arrive early and plan to ride around "looking for parking" please ensure you have a FULL tank of petrol... do not run out of petrol and risk being spoken to and penalised by the police.
Note: If you cannot attend in the morning, please arrive outside Parliament House by 11:50am and join the motorcade around Parliament House.

7. THERE WILL BE A STRONG POLICE AND MEDIA PRESENCE! Idiotic behaviour will not be tolerated under ANY circumstances. Anyone committing an offence should expect no leniency from the police and no support from the RAB.

8. If approached by the media and asked why you are protesting you are to direct ALL questions to Rob Colligan who will be on the staging area with the microphone. This will avoid people making silly comments which will be used as stock footage and harm the goal of the rally.
Note: if you MUST make a comment, it must relate to the CTP issue. WE ARE PROTESTING ABOUT CTP AND NOTHING ELSE.

9. In order to cover costs imposed by Sydney City Council, The Police and The Royal Botanical Gardens Trust, a hat will be passed around asking for at least a gold coin donation.
Note: Please remember the MCC gets no official funding from the Government and all costs are being worn from their own (under funded) treasury.

10. If the number of bikes is as large as we hope, we will just cram all the parking and footpath space, within reason.
Note: Any footpath parking may attract a fine of around $85, so park at your own risk.
Note: If you do receive a parking ticket leave it on your bike so you dont receive another one.

11. If riding into the city in a large group RAB suggests riding in a 'go slow' fashion. Make it a slow race not a fast race, you will have more effect. All groups riding to Parliament are responsible for their own actions and will receive no support in antisocial behaviour from the RAB or the MCC in any way, shape or form. Use your head, don't do anything stupid!

12. This, we hope, will be one of the largest motorcycle rallies in NSW history. Lets make it count and not further negative stereotypes that have lead to our being discriminated against in the first place.

You know the time, you know the place, you know the reason. We NEED you there and anyone else you can bring. Lets make this THE Protest that tells the Government enough is enough.
Hope to see you there!
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Offline VinceS

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This is part of a series of releases and as such a part of a (hopefully) well designed strategy.
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Offline VinceS

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Those with 250cc's are the worst affected as the cut-off has been moved down to 225cc and 250's now get lumped in with bikes three times their size. What a total BS approach from a bunch of AH bureacrats!!!!!!!

It is interesting to see Mr Stoner of the Nationals signed first!

This new website has just been launched.     I signed!

It would be a good idea to get this circulated as widely as possible to as many riders as possible in order to demonstrate the level of anger out there.
Also let them know how much your Greenslip has gone up this year so that they have some facts on the table to throw at the Government.
Er, that would be the Government who swore blind that the cost of Grenslips would only go up by $20. 
Yeah right!
Get them page views happenin'!!!
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Offline VinceS

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A couple of bits of info from MCCNSW chit chat:

Details are now: Macquarie Street (outside Parliament House) and the protest goes from noon. Police have been advised and the official approvals have been sought and obtained. Right now there are no plans for a group or mass "ride in". The MCC is saying just get there yourself. It is possible that organised ride-ins will be advised closer to the event. I think the MCC has no idea of numbers. Anyone definitely going to be there could email the MCC to help their planning.

Things have been happening at MCC (Motorcycle Council) which is the group representing the motorcycle clubs in NSW.

They have been meeting with other groups from the Motor Industry and Government bodies, primarily about the screwy way CTP has been set. Basically MAA got it wrong, basing it on crash data instead of claims data.

Plenty of detail on MCC's site if you want. Including letters to write and addresses to send to.

HOWEVER, the main point is that there is a protest rally planned for August 31st - the day NSW Parliament gets back to work (work!).

Let's put up a good, strong, united front.

Please take the time now to decide to be there. MCC Press Release is below. Try to think about how you'll dress and how we'll present ourselves, we want to be taken seriously by boring people like the Pollies...

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MCC of NSW and other ride groups have organised a Protest in Sydney on Tuesday 31st August. We are urging all riders to meet at 12 noon outside Parliament House, Macquarie Street Sydney.
This event is about welcoming the Politicians back from their Winter Break and letting them know that there are over 168,000 of us and that a large portion of us are as mad as hell.
The Premier and members of Parliament have been invited to speak. The Press Release is attached below, and pasted under the following invitation which has been sent to many politicians:

Dear Premier,
                     On behalf of the Motorcycle Council of NSW, I would like to extend an invitation for you to speak at a gathering of Motorcyclists and Scooter Riders outside Parliament House at 12noon on August 31st. We would like to hear from our Government on what can be done to find a solution to the massive increases in CTP Premiums for many in this community as of July 1st 2010. We would also like to hear our Governments? position on recognizing motorcycles and scooters as a ?Unique and Independent Road User Group?.

We would welcome this opportunity to hear you speak to us about our concerns and look forward to your RSVP.

Warmest regards

Rob Colligan
Motorcycle Council of NSW
Mob: 0401227731



21 July 2010

With the arrival of new mobile speed cameras, and the RTA's proposed new 4km/h tolerance limit for all speeding offences, it is time to take an objective look at the facts the speed-camera-revenue-addicted Keneally government is not telling us about motorcycles.

* FACT: In 1995 there were 8.9 motorcycle fatalities per 10,000 registered motorcycles in NSW.
* FACT: In 2008 there were 3.7 motorcycle fatalities per 10,000 registered motorcycles in NSW.

There are more bikes on the road than ever and the road toll is going down. The RTA's own statistics verify that. There is no "carnage" on our roads and there never has been. That is just a convenient catch-phrase the government wheels out whenever it wishes to bankroll its fiscal failures from the pockets of the state's road-users. Despite this, motorcyclists' CTP premiums are set to rise by over 84 per cent in some cases.

"Never in my 40 years of involvement in motorcycles have I seen riders so angry," the chairman of the NSW Motorcycle Council said today. "On August 31st, 2010 NSW Parliament returns and thousands of annoyed motorcycle and scooter riders will be there to greet them."

Motorcycle and scooter riders are a unique and independent road-user group and they are fed-up with being ignored and repeatedly failed by the NSW government, except when it needs money.

United we ride - Divided we walk
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Offline VinceS

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Hi all,
My reply from Barry O'Farrell, interesting.... let see if he can do anything.

From: []
Sent: Wednesday, 23 June 2010 6:18 PM
To: Noel O'Kell
Subject: Re: Planned CTP Increase
Dear Noel,
Thank you for your email regarding the increase in cost of CTP green slips in NSW.
From 1 July, nearly 500,000 riders in NSW will have to deal with new green slip charges.
Green slips and other extra taxes and charges that accompany insurance premiums have been a great source of revenue for cash-strapped NSW Labor Government.
When Labor increased the green slip levy as a result of the addition of the Medical Care and Injury Services [MCIS] Levy in 2006, Morris Iemma said it would cost members of the community only $20. It is now running as high as 50% of CTP premiums.
In 2010-11, the NSW Government?s Motor Accident Authority has a projected deficit of $18.2 million. This deficit is why you will pay more for your green slip levy from 1 July. 
From our understanding, the increases in CTP green slips for motorcycles will be more than 85 % in some cases. This will cost you up to $470 a year.
Kristina Keneally?s Labor Government?s vision for our roads network involves more fines, more taxes and higher premiums but no new roads.
Motorists and riders are already being hit with higher tolls, rising power and water costs and other cost of living pressures. These increases in CTP green slip charges will certainly not help.
The NSW Liberals & Nationals understand your frustration and are investigating alternatives to this unreasonable price hike in close consultation with the Motorcycle Council of NSW.  I will continue to keep you updated. 
Thank you again for taking the time to write to me. 
Barry O'Farrell MP
NSW Leader of the Opposition
(P) 02 9230 2270
(F) 02 9221 8208

>>> "Noel O'Kell" 21/06/2010 8:50 pm >>>
Dear Mr O'Farrell
As published in the Daily Telegraph (See )  Could you advise why this increase is being pushed by the NSW Labour Government, to me it is price gouging to the highest degree.  There is no logic in this considering Compusory Third Party insurance is to insure the other people in an accident, a motorcyclist who is at fault would not be covered normally - to cover this costs more.  If anything, CTP for Motorcycles should be reduced considering a motorcycle can't do as much damage to other people as a car or 4 wheel drive, they also reduce congestion and have a much smaller carbon footprint.
I have been riding motorcycles since I was 12 years old, I got my learners license at 16 years and 9 months (As it was in the day) and my riders license at 17, I am now 54 years old and have never had an accident where I was hurt (Touch wood ) and a clean license.  My wife and I ride a tourning motorcycle which has kept our marriage alive and well, our beloved hobby which we enjoy is in danger of being wiped out. We also belong to the Ulysses Club which has more that 50,000 members, a majority of whom live in NSW.  This WILL reduce the income of regional townships as we bring tourist dollars to these communities every day, if we stop riding because we get priced off the road by these increases these communities will suffer.
I just can't understand why this is being introduced, there is no justification for it.  I look forward to your response.
Many thanks
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Offline VinceS

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OK more data.

NSW and Queensland are the only States to offer a 'choice' As my original note indicated, Queensland offer a fixed cost throughout the state with either a discount or premium (you decide the terminology) based on whether you have a pillion or not.

In NSW there are a million variables and seven insurers and the price can only be calculated based on all the variables (Smoke and mirrors).

In Western Australia the fixed price is currently $138.93 (Private use) $147.54 for Business use)
In Victoria it looks like the postcode is a variable - do we have any Victorians who could provide data please?
In SOuth Australia the postcode comes into effect - but just to determine one of 2 districts - DIstrict 1 or District 2. Also they have 4 motorcycle classes.

                                                District 1                District 2
Class 34 < 50 cc                        $70                        $44
Class 35 50-250cc                    $222                        $97
Class 36 250-660cc                    $288                    $195
Class 40 > 660cc                        $$390                    $337

Note: The SA data is transcribed from a PDF - which made me crick my neck looking at it sideways :-(


11 Motorcycle
(a) if the engine capacity is not over 300 mL.......................  $97.90
(b) if the engine capacity is over 300 mL but is not over
600 mL............................................................................   $438.80
(c) if the engine capacity is over 600 mL.............................. $438.80

ACT Summary - two classes 1. < 300cc $97.90 PA. Over 300cc $438.80 PA

Northern Territory

Motorcycle exceed 600ml        $698.45
Motorcycle exceed 260ml        $698.45
Motorcycle exceed 125ml        $270.50
Motorcycle not exceed 125ml    $96.95

NT Summary - I suspect the granularity is to allow more variance in the future - note that effectivly there are three classes 1. < 125cc, 2. 125-260cc and above 260cc

Finally (nearly forgot <grin>) Tasmania.

125cc to 250cc $448.00
Over 250cc $448.00
Less than 125cc $178.00

In Tas as in some of the other states they have a greater granularity with the same premium - essentially they have two classes being < 125cc and above 125cc

I found the following URL which gives a pointer to all individual states calculators/schedule.


Thats all folks!

One of our motorcyclists in Queensland posted his CTP quote - thought the comparisons may be useful
I have made some points/questions after the data below.


For Renewal period March to June 2010 - Class 13 (Motorcycle with pillion)
       AAMI: $292.00      
         SUNCORP: $292.00      
         NRMA Insurance: $292.00      
         ALLIANZ: $292.00      
         RACQ Insurance: $292.00      
         QBE: $292.00      

Same period without pillion. (Class 12)
       QBE: $100.00      
         AAMI: $100.00      
         SUNCORP: $100.00      
         NRMA Insurance: $100.00      
         RACQ Insurance: $100.00      
         ALLIANZ: $100.00      

For renewal period 30-June to September 2010 with pillion.
        AAMI: $284.00      
         RACQ Insurance: $284.00      
         QBE: $284.00      
         NRMA Insurance: $284.00      
         ALLIANZ: $284.00      
         SUNCORP: $284.00      

And for same period no pillion.
         RACQ Insurance: $99.40      
         NRMA Insurance: $99.40      
         AAMI: $99.40      
         QBE: $99.40      
         SUNCORP: $99.40      
         ALLIANZ: $99.40   

Some points on the quoted prices.

1. No question on size of bike
2. No question on existing insurance
3. No question of age of rider
4. For the later period the no pillion quote has gone down (I assume because you havn't got a pillion to be injured)

5. VERY IMPORTANT - all insurers are quoting EXACTLY the same amount.

6. No question of postcode where bike is.
7. The rider only prices are enough to make one weep!

Perhaps someone can give be some better  insights into the above data!

I may do this same exercise for the rest of the States/Territories.

To clarify the "no pillion class" in Queensland, many years ago, under a very well organised, vocal and politically active MRAQ (sadly long since degenerated somewhat from those mighty heights), the Queensland state government, through their insurance company SGIO who became Suncorp, were/was outed in the media as thieves for charging money to insure something that doesn't exist, i.e. the vulnerable non existent passenger on a solo seated bike.
By way of explanation, your CTP covers not you the rider, but the passengers of your bike plus the controller and passengers of any other vehicle involved in an accident, and any unlucky bystanders that may receive personal injury from the actions of the said rider. Take away the pillion and the likelihood of claim is diminished by a huge percentage.
The Queensland state government acquiesced and added a class of registration for solo seated bikes and reflected this in CTP premiums. You can register any motorcycle as a solo seater by removal of rear footpegs and theoretically grabrails (including the uphostered band across the saddle, which is deemed such) and for a small fee (much less than the savings incurred) a once off inspection and affixment of a plate stating that the machine has been modified from the original 2 seat configuration. I've take advantage of this with every bike I own, from sportsbikes to scooters, and save at least $1500 a year on rego/ctp
Time for NSW to get a liitle loud for your legal rights?

     Please find below the bullet points that we would like you to use in your words in letters to the following:
?   Your State Local Member.
?   Your Local Council/Mayor.
?   Your Federal Local Member.
?   Your local Paper.
?   Premier of NSW:  Kristina Keneally,
?   The Minister for Roads: David Borger,
?   The Minister for Transport: John Robertson,
?   The  Minister for the MAA: Eric Roozendaal,
?   The Minister for Finance: Michael Daley,
?   Leader of the Opposition: Barry O?Farrell,
?   Shadow Minister of Transport: Gladys Berejiklian,
?   Shadow Minister for Roads: Andrew Stoner
Ask these questions and use these points:
Why are some CTP insurers making no effort to offer competitive pricing for a compulsory, statutory product?
Clearly, the CTP system is fat and lazy with few incentives to offer fair pricing
Whose turn is to be cheapest next year? GIO seem to be the cheapest this year.
Cheap does not mean sub-standard.
It indicates one company is pricing based on actual risk and others are seeking profit from how they market their product.
It is unreasonable for a statutory, compulsory product, to force up pricing by confusing or misleading through so-called ?marketing?  
Marketing distortions do not reflect actual risk.
Why should existence of another insurance product or roadside service change pricing for CTP risk?
Please explain how these are related to actual CTP claims risk.
Why do some insurers have different risk ratings?
If actual risks were known, then all insurers would vary on the same criteria.
How do demerit points relate to actual risk of a CTP claim arising?
Demerit points and actual risk of a crash are quite separate and no longer indicate crash risk.
Minor crashes with no injury are about property damage, not CTP claims
Speeding fines are simply used as a ?malus stick? for revenue generation by insurers.
While the MAA is clear on the amount of money leaving the scheme, how much money is collected by insurance companies?
The question of fair profit follows, but transparency must be achieved.
 Points to remember in your letters:
The NSW CTP scheme has flaws and this recent change in motorcycle classifications has exposed these flaws to view.
These flaws can only be repaired by our elected government.
Let them know it needs fixing.
Don?t just whinge to your mate, then roll over. That?s lazy.  Stand up, speak out.
We?re being gouged by insurers exploiting the flaws.
Speak to Parliament or they assume you?re OK with it.
Please forward any responses via email back to MCCNSW.
In the meantime, we are continuing to plan for the Protest Rally on August 31st. Please spread the word.
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Offline VinceS

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A motorcyclist sent this enquiry:
Using the following calculator with a start date of 1/12/2010,
Why are motorcycles comparably more expensive for CTP than an equivalent car ? CTP stands for "compulsory third party" insurance which I understand means compensating someone else that the driver or rider injures during the course of an accident. If I were in an accident, where I were physically hit by another vehicle, I think it's a fair claim that I'd be more seriously injured if hit by a Ford Laser than my Hyosung GT250. However, CTP prices based on my details (39, 3 points, completely insured, no accidents) for a Laser is $373. The bike is $347.

Based on this comparison of compensation for injury, it appears a motorcycle is nearly equally likely to seriously injure a third party. The price is the same regardless of whether I drive a Nissan Patrol, a Commodore, or a Laser. However if I rode a 750cc motorcycle, which on rough stats would weigh 220kg, the price would increase to $508.

Please explain how being injured by a 220Kg motorcycle has a lower insurance payout than being hit under identical conditions by a 2,477Kg 2010 Patrol. This does not make sense.

and got back  this:

Response from within 24 hours is not bad:

Thank you for raising your concerns about the increase in cost of motorcycle CTP Green Slips in NSW.

Since 1 July, the owners of more than 165,000 registered motorcycles in NSW have had to deal with new green slip charges.

The latest cost increase is a result of legislation the Keneally Labor Government introduced last year. At the time they said it would only result in an increase to the cost of the average Green Slip of approximately $10.[1].

The standard green slip fees for a 250cc motorcycle has risen by a dramatic 85.5 per cent and will cost many riders up to $470 a year for their green slips.

This rise comes on top of electricity, gas, water and vehicle registration hikes.

The Keneally Labor Government has an ongoing war on motorists and riders and its vision for our roads network involves more fines, more taxes and higher premiums but no new roads.

  After nearly 16 years in power they have no ideas and offer no solutions on how to fix our State's ailing road network.

The NSW Liberals & Nationals understand your frustration and believe riders are rightly disappointed with the Keneally Labor Government as this is just another increase that was slipped in without any consultation.

Only the NSW Liberals & Nationals have the practical and positive plans that will Make NSW Number One Again.

NSW needs a change of Government but in the meantime, the NSW Liberals & Nationals are investigating alternatives to this unreasonable price hike in consultation with the Motorcycle Council of NSW and other stakeholders.

I would be more than happy to keep you updated if you like.

Yours sincerely

Ilse van de Meent
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Offline VinceS

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For history of this topic see Now with the bankrupt state we are in it is taking a new twist, and boy is there some momentum under the idea that enough is enough and taking the fight to 'em. It is very evident that this is about singular hatred some high ranking bureacrats have against motorcycles generally and motorcyclists in particular.  Here is some of the info floating around:

There will be a Rally which will be at 12 noon on August 31st at Parliament House, Macquarie Street Sydney. This event is about welcoming the Politicians back from their Winter Break and letting them know that there are over 168,000 of us and that a large portion of us are as mad as hell.!/event.php?eid=110567892326153&ref=ts!/profile.php?id=100001201849208&ref=ts
The guts of this issue is that CTP premiums are being split into different cc ranges than before, and there is a BIG impact on pricing for 250cc motorcycles which will double, and for litre plus bikes which go up by "a lot". I have checked the 250cc issue out and it is real. With the ridiculous variation between insurers (an "only in NSW" thing) it is hard to pin down exactly what is going on, one of the early statements was this:

Your CTP is going up.
NSW CTP Greenslips change from 1 July and no one bothered to tell us because they thought we wouldn?t notice.
The Motorcycle Council of NSW and Bikers Australia are unaware of the extent of the changes based on my calls to them today.
The new categories are as follows;
100 to 226
226 to 726
726 to 1125
1125 to 1325
1325 and over

Bike Capacity   Pre 1 July   New Price 1 July   Percent increase
             250   $252                $465                84%
             600   $663                $465                -30%
             750   $663                $682                3%
            1000   $663                $682                3%
            1150   $663                $880                32%
            1350   $663                $780                18%
Prices are an average of the top 3 prices gleaned from the MAA Greenslip calculator.
Information based on;
2004 model bike
Metro area rego.
Driver 48 Y/O
No Demerit points
No other insurance
No roadside assist.
No at fault
Private Registration

URL Legislative Assembly members

Minister for Transport
John Robertson
Phones 9230 2152 and 9228 5661
Faxes 9230 2352 and 92285168

Minister for Roads David Borger
Phones 9637 1656 and 9228 3555
Faxes   9897 1434 and 9228 3585

Shadow Minister for Roads Andrew Stoner

Basically email/write/drop into your local member  and the transport minister and advise the following;
You vote and will vote for the person that supports you.
Ask why is this happening
Ask what are they doing about it.
Ask why the split of capacities is so obviously designed to gouge the maximum amount out of Motorcyclists
« Last Edit: 18 Jul 2010, 11:00 PM by VinceS »
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